Mosh On, Mosh Off, Grasshoppers
Thursday, September 07, 2006
This just in: Brad and Brodie, the two most vocal talismen of the Norwood-centric blogosphere, or "Wood-o-Sphere" if you will, have blogged as a couple with matching topics and opinions again. Can I call them "the Bradie Bunch" yet? Well, with Wood-o-Spheres being what they are, I might as well broadcast a response here rather than a little CTRL-C/CTRL-V action on both their blogs. It's tough being a helpdesk for rhetorical questions, but someone's gotta do it.
The topic in question is crowd etiquette at gigs. It's a contentious point for gig-goers the world over. Brodie's post and Brad's post about the Karnivool/Seven/Antistatic gig both express pleasure at the performances but not of the crowd behaviour.
I went to a gig last night - not the same one, thankfully, for your sake - to get a good dose of piano rock courtesy of The Fray at the Prince of Wales. Excluding that obscure pole that's always a bit in the way (if you've been to the Prince, you'll know), it was a splendid gig. Will pointed out that the setlist was a little out of whack, but I can deal with that. You see, recently I've become a big fan of the halfway-into-the-front-section-and-slightly-to-the-right brigade. All I really need is two (plus) beers and I'll have a good singalong - very little can bother me. So that's the first thing I'd prescribe to the two aforementioned gents. Relax, guy! Take a load off, don't think about it.
With the sort of indie rock / inoffensive rock gigs I go to, crowd etiquette isn't usually a problem, unless it gets to you! I have been to my share of heavier gigs though, so I feel qualified enough to tend to your questions. There'll always be a pocket or two of "stupids" or a tall dude with an afro somewhere, but a gentle shift away from the nutjobs is natural in any environment. I don't get too riled up unless it's a very uninformed crowd (i.e. too mainstream) which means there's a high dickhead-to-music-fan ratio - or you're right up the front. Pushing is inevitable there.
Allow me to hypothesize: are the dickheads all up the front then? Are Brodie and Brad the kind of people who attract crazies? Remember, if neither of your two best friends is crazy, it's you. Something like that. I forget. Might be harsh. Unfortunately, securing prime real estate comes at a cost. It doesn't matter if you're at the front of a gig, or at the front of a crowd watching motor racing or football, people will always want your spot because it's better than yours. Humans are selfish idiots and if you thought it used to be different, you're wrong. Either the gigs were less crowded, less popular or you're both prone to "fond-ening" up your memories. Consider yourself hockey forwards trying to park yourself in the slot - not gonna happen with a decent defense around. There's two ways to go: get territorial or just have a good time.
If you love being up the front, you'll think it's worth whatever punishment comes your way. Stand up for yourself and defend your position with your entire arse...nal. Arsenal, yes. Any avid fan of indoor soccer matches knows you can use your ass as a battering ram to gain territory, as exhibited by "Steven Seagal" of "Steven Seagal and the Ponytails". And by all means, feel free to check some dickhead hockey-style to gain some space. Sometimes you have to become a dickhead to survive with dickheads all around you. That's probably why Frankston's such a shithole.
Conversely, let nothing bother you. If they french fry when they should pizza, you're gonna have a bad time. So Brad and Brodie, if they're killing your buzz, get outta the pit (as difficult as it may be) and get yourself a stiff drink. No doubt all that man attention will have got you halfway there. Oh! Just kidding. I don't know what you guys go to gigs for, but it's all about the music for me. If I can still hear it and get a general sense of what's going on up on the stage, I'm more than content. I mean, there's not that many hot chicks in Aussie metal is there? Sure, I like to see what notes are being played and stuff, but sometimes you've gotta accept the cards you're dealt. Save it for the little Aussie band gigs and have a blast up the front then!
Also, in regards to chicks at gigs, they are to be fully respected until they smack you a wicked one and don't apologise. Then, they're fair game to be bashed around the pit as much as everyone else (they might even enjoy a scuffle if they're givin' as good as they're gettin'). That's chivalry and equality. One thing's for sure, in indie gigs, the first three rows should be short chicks - they deserve a shot too. If you're a bloke in that fourth row, it's up to you to make sure no one clatters into them. Then pull a phone number. Failing that, there's always something else you could pull. Oh!
I say you two guys have gotta try viewing from further back where it's less intense - or quit your damn online stereo whining! I'm beginning to think you're not all about the music! You don't have to exchange winks with the guitarist to have a good time. That's what groupies do. Are you groupies or not? Maybe you should take a test. Anyway, I don't think I'll ever idolise the members of my favourite bands like some people do, so maybe I'm just talkin' shit. But laidback does work for moi. Your move, Sherlock. Or make that Sherlocks.
19 comments to this post
Man, good response, but I must contend a few points.
Firstly, a minor point but I feel I should just let it known that I could sometimes be considered the "annoying tall guy who insists on standing right in front of everyone simultaneously so no one can see anything", but I always make sure I check who's directly behind me and, if they're shorter than me, let them in front. In this instance it was the group of annoying fuckers, and they were all as tall as me or taller, so I didn't need to. I'm always mindful of the people around me when I'm at a gig, and all I ask is that I get the same treatment.
Anyways, I'm normally a "stand towards the middle of the crowd with folded arms and just enjoy the music" guy, but it's a little bit different with Karnivool and Seven. I enjoy being up the front and going a bit more nuts than my usual subdued self with these bands because the music lends itself well to yelling along at the top of your lungs. I believe I should be allowed to do this without being accosted from all sides by inconsiderate fuckwits.
I understand that a lot of people will want to stand where, at maximum, a dozen people are able to physically fit; so there's obviously going to be a bit of jostling... but I've been going to gigs for many years, and there's always been (until recently) a sort of unwritten rule that you don't just barge your way in and push everyone out of the way. If you're able to get a good spot without punching someone in the face, you take it, but you don't just waltz in and expect to be front row.
For pretty much my entire gig-going life I've been able to stand at the front of a venue and just enjoy the music, but it's just the last few months that it's been getting out of hand.
Even last time I saw Karnivool at the Hi-Fi is a good example... we were right at the front before the support bands started so we could get a good spot. Bianca came up and introduced herself to us all and we (well, Brodie) ended up chatting to her for pretty much the entire time until Karnivool hit the stage. On the other side was some random dude and his girlfriend, and at the end of the night it was still all of us in a row. That entire gig I never thought the position-grabbing got out of hand... we all (Bro, Crag, Bianca and I) kept our spots and didn't really get annoyed by fuckwits trying to barge in at all, because everyone was pretty cool and didn't just randomly push you out of the way for no reason.
Perhaps there is a little bit of rose-coloured glass in between me and my recollection of these events, but it was less than a year ago so it can't be that bad.
There is definitely a problem with the way people act at gigs, and it's even crept into nightclubs. We were at Next tonight, and I was given the old "shoulder-as-you-walk-past" about a dozen times by people who, if they had the slightest inclination, could have just brought their shoulder in a few centimetres and completely missed me. But they chose to run straight into me.
One girl (yes, a girl) grabbed Brodie with both hands and pushed him out of her way. What the fuck is that about?
Perhaps it is because we go to different gigs... but when I think about the gigs with the best crowds, mine were ALL prior to 2005.
Fuckholes.
Testify!
BTW, I never think you're that tall, probably cause your presence is greater online or something, so that wasn't a shot at ya.
It probably is getting worse these days. Should I blame hip-hop? Emos? Emus?
Nice blog… valid points but I have a few minor issues…
Firstly let me make it clear that I’m always there for the music and always have been and always will. Now that I’ve got that out of the way let the bitching begin J Honestly I would probably much rather be the dude who stands in the middle section of the crowd but I have had to adapt to the “stand in front against the barrier” style because of my height. For both you and Brad it’s hardly an issue being tall people, us little people struggle a lot more at a gig. At a gig Brad would generally be the guy I want to punch in the stomach and move out of my way because of his height, before I started being up the front that is what I’ve always had to deal with. But like I’ve mentioned people are starting to get worse and not respecting the fact you can’t physically fit a certain amount of people against one railing, yet choose to try and barge their way through anyway.
That said though I’m just gonna blame the Rubys crowd as I have just returned home from the Karnivool gig at the Hi Fi and it was awesome. The crowd was fine the only issue I had was some dude who put his arms around me and basically mounted me from behind (insert gay joke here). That girl I mentioned (the pushy one) actually came up to me before Karnivool played and personally apologised for what happened at Rubys. I ended up driving her home and getting her digits (w00t). The fact she apologised completely made my evening.
I 100% agree with you “pocket of stupids comment” but at Rubys they were spread all over in groups of idiots and basically ruined it for everyone else. I can tolerate one or two morons at a gig but when there’s a “mosh of morons” it’s a little hard to ignore.
Nuff Said…
Yeah tonight's gig TOTALLY restored my faith in crowd etiquette... I think it was just the Belgrave bogan brigade that were to blame for the shit atmosphere on Wednesday. Everyone around me was awesome tonight, no one tried to physically move me to grab my spot, and I ended up meeting/talking to a bunch of cool people throughout the night.
But Brodie... I gotta say, as soon as you get a sniff of the boobies, you change your opinion of someone so fucking quickly. Yesterday that chick was the most annoying person in the world, now you see an opportunity to bone her so you've completely done a backflip. Where's your spine man?!
I will agree with you that, after talking to her, she seems nice enough and isn't a complete bitch outside of a crowd. But she still acted like a cow at the gig on Wednesday, and tried to get me to move tonight... sure she apologised for the other night, but if you apologise for being a bitch it doesn't mean you're no longer a bitch... it just means you apologised for it.
Anyway, rant over... I had an awesome night tonight and it totally makes up for Wednesday. I guess it just depends on where you go.
I agree with the "short chicks" Pat, sometimes you just gotta pity them, how the hell do they see?
I'm medium height, and tall, fat people really annoy me - and don't get me started on phones...
And I was waiting for a "giggity giggity" in your post, totally needed it
What did you think the Oh! was referring to, Will? That's vintage Quagmire. Vintage!
Yes, as a short chick I can say its truly annoying sometimes, I almost expect guys to not notice they are in the way, cuz u know, guys arent as observant as chicks in general. What really annoys me is the bitchy chicks that stand too close to you and expect you to move over for them, when there isnt anywhere for you to move, get fucked...moles.
"But Brodie... I gotta say, as soon as you get a sniff of the boobies, you change your opinion of someone so fucking quickly."
dude i fucking told you before we even got to speaking i was ok with her because she had come up and apologised. I didn't actually speak to her untill after the gig. I actually let her in because she apologised to me, you're just pissed cause she didn't apologise to you
Don't make me adjudicate Brodie! I've a fair idea whose favour this argument would fall in.
If she apologised to me it wouldn't make a difference... I don't need or want an apology, she shouldn't have done it and to quote your fine self the other day: "she was a pushy little cow".
And even on Friday she asked both Bert and I if we could move over to let her in front... but we'd been there in the front row for the ENTIRE night before that, and she just waltzes in 10 minutes before Karnivool started and almost demanded to be let in (you should have seen her face when I said no, it was like it was her birthright to be at the front). Bert's response was "sorry I've been here for a long time", but her response made it clear that she had no understanding on the concept of "first in, best dressed". If you want to be in the front row, GET THERE EARLY, GET A GOOD SPOT AND STAY THERE (like we did). Don't come later and annoy the people who are already there.
And in regards to the tall thing... us tallies get treated like second-class citizens most of the time, and it shits me. I always hear "oh fuck, the 6ft guy just HAD to stand in front of me" when I'm at gigs... like I can fucking help my height. I have just as much a right as anyone else to stand as close to the stage as I like, I'm not going to apologise for being tall.
When I'm just hanging around the middle/back of a crowd I'm more than happy to move behind someone shorter than me, but it's different up the front. I shouldn't have to move just because I'm naturally taller than the average person. You shorties need to stop your damn bitching!
so you're saying apologies are completely wasted on you?
next time someone does something wrong to you that there's no point in apologising?
I would accept the apology and then move on, but it doesn't mean the incident never happened... she's still a cow, she just apologised for it.
And that's just in this instance, I'm not saying ALL apologies are lost on me.
She didn't even apologise on the night, she waited until the next gig and (surprise surprise) asked to be let in front straight afterwards... gee, I wonder what the motivation for her apology was. And lo and behold, you let her in front. You got played man!
I'm only half-serious about it anyways... if you end up porking her, which I'm sure is the plan, I wouldn't refuse to talk to her or whatever... like I said, after talking to her she seemed alright. I'm just saying, it was irritating having to deal with that during the Ruby's concert because it took my focus off the music, and you just don't do that at a concert. And her "apology" doesn't change anything.
I believe I've made my point. Patrice, care to adjudicate?
Apologies do need to be genuine. Now, Brad's inferred that she's apologised for something, yet done the same annoying action again, so it doesn't sound genuine to me.
And Brodie, did you know that women can get anything they want from men by being sweet when it suits them?
The More You Know!
So, Bronutter, return fire!
"Brad's inferred that she's apologised for something, yet done the same annoying action again"
I think you'll find that she asked Brad if she could squash into the front because there was enough room and he said no, fair enough seeing as he had been waiting there and shouldn't have to move if he doesn't want to. But she asked this time rather than just barging in.
She never asked me if she could come in to the front either, just after they started i decided (it was my own choice) to move over and i grabbed her attention so she knew she could come in.
She was stuck behind Brad and Burt both reasonably tall people, remember the whole karma conversation Brad? Well i was doing my part.
And yes Pat, i'm well aware of what women can do to get what they want, all too well sadly.
Well grow some testicles!
Brad, you're up.
Were you seriously thinking about letting her in just for the good of it though? Or is that just a convenient argument a week later? Because you know, you'd spent ALL of Thursday night paying me out about how karma is bullshit and you don't believe in it, but if you say that the very next night you completely changed your mind on that too, then I guess I should believe you... I mean, you did change your mind about the chick, so there's a precedent there.
And I believe the reason she asked this time instead of just barging through is because I showed her on Wednesday that I make it very difficult for people to push in front of me. I've been at the front of an Opeth concert for fuck's sake! So she knew she'd be unsuccessful and decided to try a different tack by asking, and when it didn't work she moved over to you.
But the point of this debate is the apology. I'm saying, her apology to you was bullshit because it's quite obvious that she saw us up the front again, wanted to get there herself, and realised that she'd have to contend with us to get there. So she could either try to push through again (see above), or she could "apologise" for the other night and see if you'd let her in front. I wonder what would have happened if we were standing towards the back of the room... would she have apologised then? I doubt it.
This one's swaying heavily towards Brad's favour now. Not only is he questioning your tactics dealing with this chick, he's called you out on flipflopping for two different topics within the span one week!
If we're gonna have an argument about karma, I support that theory a bit too, perhaps due to the influence of "My Name Is Earl".
I'd also like to throw in another question for you fine gents: Is doing a good thing for a fundamentally bad person good or bad karma?
I should be on the debate team, I swear...
And My Name is Earl is the shit, yo! Although I believed in karma before it ever came along, but Jason Lee is my hero.
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